TacticalRealism.com

Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 Review

March 19th, 2006 by TR Staff

Here’s a review of Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41 -45 from a group of TR players who’ve spent a considerable amount of playtime online since it released last Tuesday.

First impressions

NightStalker: Without a doubt the first impression most people get when they load this game up is how last generation the graphics look and feel. To call the game bad because it doesnt look as good as another game is a mistake I see from many people. As soon as you dive into an Online server, you will quickly become comsumed by the sheer beauty of the gameplay that lies at the core of this game. Gone are the days when one person can run around by himself killing everything in his path to victory; in its place you have the most team oriented, realism based game on the market. You need teamwork to get anywhere in this game.

Jester: When first loading the game, I noticed it reminded me of Operation Flashpoint, with COD 1 level of graphics. Red Orchestra: Ostfront doesn’t have next-gen graphics. It has next-gen gameplay. It wasn’t made with console players in mind…it was made for PC users, with a huge field of view and precision aiming needed. Large expansive maps, ballistics, weather effects, realistic aiming, weapon properties, and vehicles. This game is art imitating life. Unlike most games which claim a realistic feel and make subtle, but game changing, compromises to try to improve playability.

D6Veteran: This game is a steal at $25. Despite the toughest learning curve for any FPS I have played, from the start this game delivers a unique experience. And I should not call this an FPS — it is a WW2 infantry and tank simulator. Graphically it is not as good as HL2 or CoD2, but the importance of that fact dimishes quickly due to incredible gameplay.

Gameplay

NightStalker: Gone are the days when John Doe could run and gun around a server, bunny hop to avoid fire, and jump out windows untouched. This game stresses Tactical Realism play more than any game I have ever played. Shooting from the hip is nearly impossible with the recoil on the guns, in fact shooting is almost useless unless you use your iron sights when you fire. The stamina meter eliminates the advantage of bunny hopping: jumping makes your stamina decrease alot faster then sprinting, therefore after a single jump, you must recover before you can make an effective jump again.

The little things in RO’s gameplay are what is most impressive; things like the sway on your gun getting worse because you have the iron sights up for a long period of time, or the fact that you can rest your weapon on just about anything in your environment in order to steady your sway, taking cover when you have to reload, the blur effect when you are being surpressed with fire or are near a grenade that goes off. One of the biggest elements in RO’s gameplay without a doubt is the Tank combat and the role it plays overall. Tank combat is done very well with great attention to detail. This isnt CoD:UO where a single man can drive a tank, fire the mg and fire artillery all by himself. This game uses Tank crews in which each person has his own role to play. When the tank crews work together with the infantry, you get an online war experience like never before.

Jester: The gameplay is more complicated than other games in the FPS genre. Remembering games like RTCW, COD 1 & 2 and DOD:S — the run-and-gun philosophy could serve you well. However, in RO:O taking your time is the best option. The game is slower. Your movements have to be more precise. Your aim, has to be better. In a lot of games, your success when faced with your enemy is dependent on who pulled the trigger first. Not here. More often then not it is the person that took the time to go prone or into a crouch and make a deliberately aimed shot will come out the victor.
In no other game have I seen more people ducking behind cover immediately when fire screams over their heads. Or people frantically running around trying to pick up their weapon when it was shot out of their hands. Or even two enemies squaring off at each other, and killing each other with simultaneous shots.

And that is just the infantry. The tank battles are just as intense. Precise positioning, ranging, and aim are important here as well — and of course a competent driver — that listens for the shot and reload and reacts appropriately. And the details of the animations and ballistics are simply amazing. Ricochets are almost as fun to watch as a direct hit.

D6Veteran: RO:Ost delivers intense gameplay that is not only fun but can be highly immersive and challenging. The learning curve is steep and requires firm understanging of the controls. I suggest not changing the defaults until you understand all of the controls. A lot of the new players (new to RO) I encountered online had changed the default controls and so could not ask the other players for key information. Once the controls are learned you feel at home in an environment where things you’d want to do in a real life combat situation are available to you in the game. Like giving your teams heavy machine gunner more ammo, or changing the sighting on your tank gun to adjust for range, or diving into a ditch to avoid an incoming round or mg fire, or using a radio to call in artillery fire, or blowing up a hole in the wall so you can flank the enemy. It’s all here. Like I said, this is a WW2 combat simulator.

Maps

NightStalker: The maps for the game are done beautifully and fulfill their purpose, whether it is the infantry or the tank heavy maps. Personally I enjoy the infantry maps. All the maps are very wide open, there are multiple paths you can take to get to your objectives: some paths provide better cover, while others provide better flanking. Working as a team to ultilize all parts of the map is the only way to win. There are quite a few maps converted over from the RO mod and while these are great maps; they just dont feel new to long time players. Hopefully the mapping community will flourish and we will have more maps in the future.

Jester: There are three types of maps. Infantry only, combined arms, and mostly tank warfare. Most of the maps are laid out well and of large size. Some maps need their spawn points rethought out a bit. Sometimes the attacking force is much too close to the initial objective than the defending force, providing for a vehicle rush style of play, or the attacking force is too far away from the initial spawn, and it is almost impossible to remove the entrenched defenders from the initial objective. Overall, the maps are wonderful to look at and are well designed providing just the right amount of difficulty to each force and providing multiple avenues of attack and defense.

D6Veteran: The 13 maps available at release offer a tremendous variety of combat scenarios. The variety in landscapes, objectives, vehicles and weapons is simply amazing. It is more accurate to refer to the maps as battles, for each one is deeply rooted in history. For example tanks are restricted to the tanks that were historically present at the battle, so no Tigers in 1941. Each battle contains a map the player can view at any time to see the objectives for their team, their current position on the map, as well as labels for zones on the map to aid in coordinating with their comrades.

Realism Features

NightStalker: Anti Run and Gun Weapons: they sway, they recoil and there is no cone of fire; making shooting from the hip useless and annoying. There’s just no reason to ever shoot from the hip in this game. If you are in close quarters and have a rifle against an mg, you have a better chance killing your foe with a bayonet then you do trying to hit him from the hip.

Realistic Suppression and Ballistics: supressing fire plays a big role in this game because of the blur it causes those under fire. The bullet ballistics in this game are second to none: the bullets and guns act exactly like their real life counter parts, which means you really need to learn the mechanics of the guns in order to hit moving targets. You must lead into your shot and you also have to take distance into effect because of the bullet and velocity drop.

Jester: You have to aim to be successful. Free aim provides that unless you are at extremely close range and have an automatic weapon, you are better off trying to use your bayonet or a rifle strike rather than shooting from the hip. Also, after making a shot, it drops you out of iron sights (there is no zoom with the iron sights) and you have to provide input to reload. This removes the possibility of being caught in a reload animation if you have to use melee. Reloading takes a realistic amount of time, time better spent behind cover. As you reload if you are behind cover, you player pawn will automatically lower itself behind that cover. As you go back to iron sights, your player pawn will lift up slightly to provide a better view above the cover. One shot to the chest or head, one kill. However, you can shoot people in the legs and slow them down or in the hand to make them drop their weapon.

The ballistics are true to form. Having to make adjustments based on range, provides just enough difficutly without becoming frustrating.

Movement is slow, however, you can sprint, but you have to rest otherwise your overall speed will be reduced until you do. Similarly, if you injure your legs, your speed is reduced for a set amount of time, and although I haven’t confirmed this yet, if you injure a hand, your aim is affected.

You can lean around corners and rest your weapon on horizontal and vertical surfaces to better improve the sway of your aim.

I have to say again, this is the first game I’ve noticed where people react realistically to being under fire. Perhaps the motion blur supression helps with that. For example in COD people would rush objectives under fire. Here, immediately after a shot rings out, people automatically fall to the ground. No standing around looking for where the shot came from — down on the ground, scrambling for cover, crawling their way towards the objective.

D6Veteran: The beauty of Red Orchestra is in the subtle way that tactical realistic gameplay is encouraged from the environment of the game. This is done by rewarding players with life for virtually every moment they act like a trained WW2 soldier or tanker, and conversly punishing those that do not with a quick and unglorious death. Run and Gun and bunny hopping simply do not exist in RO because they don’t work — nothing will get you killed more quickly. The use of realistic ballistics also means no rail guns. At longer ranges firefights can last well over a minute between a couple soldiers in cover. The tank combat in RO is so detailed and authentic that it makes vehicle combat in games like CoD:UO and BF2 seem comically bad. I could dedicate and entire page to everything RO has to offer to a tactical realism fan.

Hunting Tiger Guarding the Bridge

Immersion

Jester: This is an example of what it will feel like to play the game: You are an anti-tank soldier. You are armed with a sub-machine gun and 3 panzerfaust. You are in a huge valley surrounded by mountains, everything is covered with snow, it is snowing. Your orders are to cross the frozen river from the town you are quatered in and to capture and hold the small pennisula from the enemy hands. You hop in the back of a half-track. The men around you are each in their own little world. One is nervously tapping his foot, another is tapping his hands on his legs to the rythm of a song in his head, a third is vomiting on his shoes. You cross the town down below the banks onto the frozen river and hop out of the half-track. Slowly you crawl along the edge of a building, finally reaching a trench that faces an open field where you know Soviet forces will be slowly rolling into position with their tanks to protect their side of the river. A Soviet T34 crests a hill to your left and slowly pulls into position behind a house about 100 meters from your trench. He is perfectly angled to take out any of your armor that crosses in to the small village on the penninsula — hoping to capture the Soviet occupied town. You raise your head ever so slightly above the trench line to get a better look. The T34’s gunner sees you and tracers fly over you head. You drop down prone in the trench. Slowly you pull up into a crouch and bring your panzerfaust into firing position. You check the reticle and make sure that you are prepared to aim correctly with the correct range. You pop your head up, aim slightly above the 80 meter mark on the sight and fire! The panzerfaust slowly arcs up — reaches its pinnicle and comes down directly on the front armor of the Soviet tank. You know it weakened him…but are you brave enough to stick your head above the trench again to fire another round?

The Best and Worst

NightStalker: The single best thing about RO is the fact that it is made and desgined with realism in mind. Comming from a Tactical Realism backround going back quite a few years, it’s great to finally see a game released with such realism right out of the box.

The worst thing is also the best thing, because the game was made for Realism players, it makes the game appeal to a much smaller and niche audience of players. This means a much smaller community of players. No matter how much we in the community try to spread the idea of Tactical Realism, one thing will always be certain: we will always be a niche community. Day of Defeat, Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, all these games had tactical realism communities, but compared to the amount of stock players these realism communities didnt have a fraction of the number of players in the total community. RO is the first big chance for the growth of Tactical Realism.

What’s Missing

Jester: Next-gen graphics. Hopefully we will see that when the Unreal Engine 3.0 is released!

A mantling system. Some objects in the game are hard to get over. Due to the restrictions in jumping (you can jump, just not very high and in succession), some objects that should be easy to get over are impossible to get over, i.e. sandbag walls. It would be great if you could “pull” yourself over this obstacle rather than trying to jump over it or going around it.

Other than that — there really isn’t too much missing gameplaywise.

D6Veteran: Tank crew supression, tank crew role switching and mantling: First, tank crews should be suppressed with a long blur and a much louder clang when their tank takes a hit. Secondly, changing role positions in a tank should not be instantaneous — movement between seats should be animated just like the movement in and out of hatches. This would further discourage solo tanking, which is often more advantageous than having to coordinate with a stranger on a public server. Lastly, a mantling ability is something I miss often in this game. With such huge rewards for any soldier using tactical movement, it becomes frustrating that you cannot pull yourself over a wall, fence or up onto a object.

Conclusion

NightStalker: This is the most realistic game you will find on the market. Most games require heavy modding to make them somewhat realistic, but the guys at Tripwire give it to us right out of the box and they give it to us for only $25 thru Steam. If you are a Tactical Realism player, looking for a game made with you in mind, this is the best $25 you will ever spend on a game. It may lack polish in graphics but its the best WW2 gameplay you will ever experience.

Jester: If you are into WWII fps, then for $25, this game will provide you with the most value you have ever gotten for your money. If you have ever given a thought to playing one of the realism mods for COD, Source, etc… this is the game for you.

D6Veteran: Not since Shogun Total War have I played a game that struck me as being so ground breaking in a genre. Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41 - 45 is not a mod for Unreal Tournament — it is a well polished retail release that delivers everything the developers promised. The gameplay is so intense at times that I found my mind filling in the pixelated world with the colors to bring it to life and create an experience that was somewhere between viewing a gritty war film and actually being on the front lines. It is simply the most immersive combat game I have ever played.

29 Responses to “Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 Review” »»

  1. Comment by fischer | 03/19/06 at 11:13 pm |

    I agree with everything pretty much. The lack of mantling is a weird oversight. I wonder if it is something they cannot do with the ut engine?

  2. Comment by TigerFuhrer | 03/20/06 at 12:14 am |

    What is mantling exactly?

  3. Comment by [-Druid-] | 03/20/06 at 3:23 am |

    As a RO Mod player I am looking forward th this games release over in the UK. the only places I have seen it so far are on the USA Amazon & Steam download which I find a pain.

  4. Comment by D6Veteran | 03/20/06 at 11:38 am |

    Mantling is a system in 1st and 3rd person shooters where your character can hoist him/herself up and over objects like walls, fences and sandbags. Typically you will get an icon indicating that you can hoist yourself over an object and then you will use the use key to perform the action.

  5. Comment by Cid250 | 03/20/06 at 11:39 am |

    Red Orchestra ost front is a close aproach to a WWII simulator, i agree that is the best game in the real of servers of 32 players… but there are still one that surpasses the realism of RO… his name is Battleground Europe, and is the best massive multiplayer game simulator about WWII.

    Even compared with the former, RO still can be considered better than Battleground Europe in a lot of infantry features… like supression. But the weapon’s wobble are similar in both games, and RO lacks of some realism features that Battleground Europe has… like the adjustable iron sights in all the infantry weapons.

    Red Orchestra can be considered the best on infantry gameplay today… but the tanks are arcadish compared with the real simulation of tanks in Battleground Europe. Tanks in RO are of course much better than the ones in the Battlefield Series, or the Operation Flash Point game… but compared with a real simulator like Battleground Europe, his ballistics and damage models, aren’t as realistics…

    If you look for a game with free game servers limited to 32 players, and you love realism in WWII era… you must buy Red Orchestra!. But if you wants a full simulator of ground, air, and sea battles of WWII era, with moth fee servers to a max of players over 10.000 online simultaneously, then Battleground Europe is a better option, specially if you want even more realism on Tank battles.

    I have both, and i enjoy both… all the infantry features that have one, i found it in the other.
    As a realism whore of WWII i want everything! :-)

  6. Comment by D6Veteran | 03/20/06 at 11:45 am |

    Battleground Europe is a game I have avoided based on some bad intial reviews. I’ve slowly been hearing better things about so I should give it another shot.

    Cid250 please contact me if you’re interested in writing a review of Battleground Europe for this site.

  7. Comment by Cid250 | 03/20/06 at 12:04 pm |

    Ok, i can do it if somebody checks the gramatics and spelling, because my first language isn’t english…
    Is enought if i fill and submint the form in the contact section of this website?. Or there are another way of contact with you?.

  8. jim
    Comment by jim | 03/20/06 at 5:23 pm |

    Excellent write up. I like that it is done by several players. Need to try this game out.

  9. Comment by Scotsman | 03/21/06 at 3:44 pm |

    I feel like I can insert some comments on Battleground Europe (BE) with authority here. I’m a long time player…and a long time real life ex-infantry officer. While BE has its flaws, its the closest thing I have ever found to what it is like in real life. No - I am not talking about all the graphics/environmentals, or even the game play. Its the general feeling that comes iwth the game.

    All these games lack the fear of death that you have in real life, but the BE experience being player vs player in the most major sort of way is the closest thing I have seen yet. Once next generation terrain engine features are added and yoy get micro-terrain, I’m sure you will agree.

    Some software does a better job currently because the play area is limited…I personally find it refreshing to move to new towns as the front progresses…no matter which side (Allies or Axis) is winning or losing.

    It can be frustrating…being killed without seeing your opponent always is…but its also reality. I rarely if ever saw my ‘killer’ in any manuever in real life be it mounted or dismounted before the shot was taken. Its part of selecting a good tactical position to begin with.

    All the wargame-in-a-can approaches are fine…but ask yourself - when was the last time you went against another unit only to find yourself looking at burning vehicles and dead squadmates to find yourself - ‘D**n - these guys are good’…

    — THAT — folks - is the real deal - thats what we said to ourselves when you run up against real world players that really know how to employ and use their weapons.

    Red Orchestra? Ok - thats fine - when you are ready to take off the training wheels and get into the real world issues involved in WWII simulation….then try BE.

    It’s still short many features (like meaningful weather and aspects of air and artillery play)…but its the best thing I have seen to give you the flavor of what WWII infantry and armor combat was all about.

    for what its worth
    scotsman
    ex 2/13th Infantry

  10. Comment by Cid250 | 03/21/06 at 6:39 pm |

    For any help with the review of BE, you can contact me in my hotmail account: “fran_mg”

    In a website speaking of Tactical Realism, this game can’t be bypassed. :-)

  11. Comment by Memoi | 03/22/06 at 1:33 am |

    RO, CoD are good games for a little blast but offer no real challenge.

    People come into Battleground Europe from games like CoD and don’t know what hit them….literally!

    Battleground Europe is a war sim, it’s a different beast altogether. It’s the most unforgiving and hardest sim you’ll ever play.

    On the numbers comparison, if we had 32 players for one attack in BE we’d be disappointed. I’ve had over 400 people spawn in from my MSP in one recent attack. That’s just infantry from one spawn, it doesn’t include armour, air support or what spawned in on other people’s msps. There must have been a similar number of defenders in the town we were attacking, so there could have been close to a thousand players involved in one attack on one town.

    For size of map, check this link - http://gophur.playnet.com/gallery/maps/mmogmaps_001?full=1
    That map’s from 2003, the actual playing area’s increased quite a lot since then.

    So stop playing kiddies games and try Battleground Europe!

  12. Comment by Larsalot | 03/22/06 at 6:12 am |

    This is teh game for all SIM and REALISM freaks, who wants more than 1×1km and 32 players :)

    D6vet:
    “Despite the toughest learning curve for any FPS I have played”

    Then you havn’t played our game yet :)
    Try measure how long it takes you from first spawning an airplane in the game, to your first A2A kill, or just taking off from the ground :P
    or from first spawning a rifleman, to your first mission with more than 1-2 kills on other infantry.

    Try it out, get with a squad and get on TS for the best experience…..

    S!
    Larsalot
    Squad : Kampfgruppe Wiking CO
    Pos in the official High Command : 3rd Panzer Division, KG1 CO

  13. Comment by Timmay | 03/22/06 at 7:30 am |

    Sorry, but that doesn’t sound like a “tough learning curve” or a “challenge” at all in BE…sounds more like a lot of down time.

    Having played every single version of MS Flight sim and IL2, taking off probably would not present much of a challenge.

    Sounds like the challenge is actually finding somebody to shoot at.

    RO and BE are apples and oranges…saying one is a kiddie game and has “training wheels” is all well and good…but what if I have no desire to spend who knows how much time not really doing anything…I can read a book and get a better experience.

  14. Comment by insurge | 03/22/06 at 9:15 am |

    What it comes down to though, nothing you do in RO means a thing. The round will end, and your skills got un-noticed. If you want a large scale battle, with realism involved, try ww2ol.

    I enjoy RO when I want something arcady and fast paced.

  15. Comment by Memoi | 03/22/06 at 9:16 am |

    Timmay,

    It’s the difference between a war sim and a game.

    Have a look at this little film made by a squaddie of mine. It’s a bit old now as the graphics have improved conciderably since this was made, but it gives some idea of what the air war looks like. http://www.40commando.com/Gallery/40COM/Movies/bornforwar.wmv

  16. Comment by Timmay | 03/22/06 at 10:23 am |

    I understand what you guys are saying…to some extent.

    First, there is no way you can convince me that anything that happens in BE “means something”. The round does end and I don’t really care if my skills are noticed or not…that is not why I play. And I do not want large scale battles. If I want operational size realism, I will play something other than a PC or video game.

    Second, it is not the difference between a war sim and a game…they are both games, period.

    As I said, there are plenty of war gaming groups where I can get my fix for large scale military operations…the reason I sit down to play RO or R6 or whatever is because I may have an hour or two to kill between real life challenges and these appeal to me. See, it is all about what is more playable, or more fun.

  17. Comment by Memoi | 03/23/06 at 7:40 am |

    The reason we’re posting in here is that someone came to the BE GMX Forums and asked BE players to comment on the game. Looking at the title of this website, Tactical Realism, it would be correct to assume that the people here are looking for games that are dependent on military tactics and are as realistic as is possible.

    BE is NOT a jump in and kill game, it’s reliant on the player base working together towards a common aim in a campaign that can take weeks or months to complete.

  18. Comment by D6Veteran | 03/23/06 at 8:50 am |

    Yes I linked some of the BE communities to the RO review as I wanted to have this very discussion. TacticalRealism.com will be covering BE in the future as I have found some BE clans/squads that support TR play.

  19. Comment by houtie | 03/30/06 at 12:07 pm |

    Seeing that BE is up for discussion :

    1. There is no discussion here of the ranking system. It is really not clear at all how to score towards gaining rank - but it is very difficult if you fight as pilot or sailor (so it will take a considerable amount of time to fly that Spit IX/FW190/Sherman/Panzer IV you always wanted.

    2. No offline mode (not even a LAN mode) - this means you are forced to play online and at a monthly rate (it’s not that high a rate - but the more you play, the more you pay - and believe me you have to play a long time to lay your hands on a lot of the equipment ingame as pointed out above).

    3. Lag and stutter is present (sometimes, not all the time).

    4. Banning people (like meself) for inexplicable reasons.

  20. Comment by houtie | 03/31/06 at 12:26 pm |

    Rdp (research and development points) affects the availability of equipment in game. It makes sense that the 109F/H81/SpitV comes into the game after the 110-109E/H75/HurriI-SpitI.

    However, rank ALSO determines YOUR access to stuff - sufficient rank is required to fly the 109F/H81/SpitV when it does get introduced into play. And if you don’t have the rank, you are stuck in your 110/H75/HurriI against the FW190/P38/SpitIX when THOSE come into play - a mix in equipment which detracts from the historicism of the game.

    Having mentioned that you need sufficient rank to obtain access to equipment - how does the scoring system work? You need to be corporal (after private and private first class) before you can advance from a Hurricane MkI to a Spitfire Mark I, for example. Simple (or rather it is definitely not): 200 percentage points have to be made to get the rank. 30 points are made for one or more kills plus a return to base (rtb). A kill without an rtb means zero points. A damage inflicted on enemy bogeys (shared killings) earn likewise zero points (rtb irrelevant). A damage is earned if some other friendly has fired on your target before you shoot it down (so sorry - such a bummer!). Good luck on getting that SpitMk1/Dewo520/109E!

    Once you reach the rank of corporal, you need to progress further to lay your hands on a SpitV/109F/H81. The scoring system is rather less lenient - at least rather less than the 30% points you used to get for a kill + rtb while climbing to the rank of corporal. Even greater luck on getting that SpitV/109F/H81!

    The same can be said of the other branches in the armed forces. The army is easiest to move up in rank because they have mission goals. If the goal is achieved, this counts as mission success and you earn points, regardless of whether you contributed to achieving that goal (more chance of meeting up with others to achieve that goal, too). There are no mission goals for air force or navy - so you score purely on kills and kills alone.

    That was the scoring system as at the end of 2004 (the manual did not explain at all). Maybe things have changed, so correct me if I am wrong. But I played the game from 2002-2004 and never got beyond HurriMKI/Dewo520/109E. The ranking/scoring system ruins the game.

  21. Comment by ozweepay | 03/31/06 at 3:11 pm |

    Good insight, informative and helpful reviews, but too many of your sentences were non-sensical and ran on too much. Some of them were hard to understand, and were still somewhat unclear even after re-reading them. Just something you might want to address if you plan on continuing with game reviewing in the future.
    But otherwise, good job in spreading the word out about this game.

  22. Comment by houtie | 04/02/06 at 3:36 am |

    How pleasant it is to see my posts first ’subject to moderation’ and then deleted. I don’t really mind my last post being deleted but the one before that was a fairly detailled and accurate and therefore valid account of ‘ what the air war looks like’ im Memoi’s words. Am I being too critical by any chance?

    Anywaze, same words found in the GMX media forums. Thank you

  23. Comment by D6Veteran | 04/02/06 at 7:43 am |

    One of your previously moderated comments has been approved. Please stay on topic.

  24. Comment by houtie | 04/02/06 at 11:21 pm |

    My first impression of Ostfront (I’ve just bought the game) is : WWIIonline is better overall.

    For example, as infantryman in WWIIonline you can look left and right - in Ostfront and other games I’ve played, leaning left or right is a poor substitute (WWIIonline does not have this btw).

    But I’ll leave you guys to do the review…

  25. Comment by Sparre | 04/03/06 at 10:38 am |

    The rank system has changed in many ways since Houti played two years back. Not much that he described is true today. MIA gives 75% of rank points and KIA gives 50% of the rank points nowdays. You get a MIA if you despawn more then 1000 meter from a military facility your side controls. This happens all the time for detracked tanks, or trucks that lost its engine.

    And as an infantry do you have total freedom to move, but two thing, you can’t jump (this game don’t know the issue with bunnyjumping) or climb up on thing (unless it slops, then can you crawl up on it). You can of course jump down on things, but after every jump down will you lose stamina, and if the jump is too high will you get hurt.

    In WWII Online can you crouch when you walk and run (you don’t run very fast crouching), and you can always turn your head around no matter what avatar you have spawned, even with Track-IR if you have it (this is a crucial feature for fighter pilots to see where their six is in dogfights). And of course can you lean standing or crouching.

    Regarding firing: There is no auto-reload. When you fire with ATR is the recoil substantial. You lose stamina and it will punch you back i bit. After a few rounds on the same spot must you move forward again. Also, the ATR can only be deployed laying, anything else would be unrealistic.

    All weapons has a physical ballistic engine. Every gun has their own historical characteristics with unique ability to penetrate due to the muzzle velocity and the barrels lenght. The barrels lenght and weight also give different sway for different rifles.

    One more very realistic feature is that if you spawn as an infantry do you stay as an infantry. You can not jump into a tank or a aircraft an suddenly assume the role of a tanker crew or a aircraft crew. And when you have spawned as such do you stay there until you despawn. The developers is planing to add parachuts to aircraft crews so they can bail out from a damage aircraft and then Return to base by foot to earn a Rescue (which gives 90% of the rank points).

    But as an infantry can you ride on most vehicles and ships including the two transportation aircrafts Ju52/3m and the C-47 Sky Train. Only Paratroopers has parachuts, and as they are regarded as elite troops do they have a slightly better stamina, something that they only can utilize after a paradrop. If they don’t do a drop will they need to run around with the chut which will reduce their stamina.

    That is just a few things that makes WWII Online quite realistic.

    Then do we have the unbelievable huge map of 30,000 square kilometer with 498 villages, towns and major cities. Since it is one big continuous map with no zones or levels or any mystical unpassable barriers is there no end to what tactic to apply both as attackers and defenders.

    A target can be attacked from any side, and in most cases will it be from several sides. And since any bridge can be blown and repaired again is it very important to control the brigdes. Even a bridge 3-5 kilometer from a target can be crucial to hold to prevent the attackers or defenders to see fresh supply.

    And since the visual sight in this game is 4000 meter on the ground and 8000 meter in the air and at the sea (which other games has such a feature?) is a well placed recon unit vital to prepare for the enemies counter-move. Hence, recon plays a very important part in this game.

    A captured town is not just a win. It also have great impact on the surronding area and might mean a great threat to the adjacent towns and villages.

    Then do we have the strategical game. Not only in the part of Reseach, Development and Production that is runned in the rear industrial facilities. But let me first tell you little about them. All three countries (France, Germany and UK) has nine factories that produce the RD&P equipment. The other side can slow them down by bombing them. However, these towns has a heavy AAA protection that reaches 6000 meter (AI controlled). The lower you fly the greater chance it will hit you. On occassion has it happend that “first time bombers” is so impressed by the heavy Flak barrage that they forget to drop the bombs why their pilots has to return for a second run over the target through the Flak barrage.

    Then is there a strategical game runned by the two High Commands. The Allied High Command (AHC) and the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) has a number of Division and Brigades/Kampfgruppe that is moved between the towns trying to cover most of the frontline (it is often difficult to cover the whole front).

    It is from these units that we all spawn from. If a Division or a Brigade is encircled with no open supply line to friendly towns will the time for when they gets new replacement be drastically reduced. And if they have no place to retreat to will these units be physiclly routed from the game world for 6 hours. When that happens do we see big holes in the front line that can be utilized for spearheading.

  26. Comment by houtie | 04/04/06 at 2:39 am |

    The rank system has changed in many ways since Houti played two years back. Not much that he described is true today. MIA gives 75% of rank points and KIA gives 50% of the rank points nowdays. You get a MIA if you despawn more then 1000 meter from a military facility your side controls. This happens all the time for detracked tanks, or trucks that lost its engine.

    You seem to be referring to the ground action. The scoring system in the air and at sea was different (and may still be so?). And the essential difference was that air/sea ranking was purely based on kills and not, as in the case of the army, the achievement of objectives (for example, attack/defend a particular location). This made it very difficult to rank up in the air force and navy. So it’s all very well saying that you have the FW190/SpitIX ingame but offer little prospect to players of ever being able to fly them in combat. To what extent has this been changed, if at all?

    It would be helpful if the system was explained fully in the manual part of the game (there is a section showing what ranks are attainable but not how they are attainable).

  27. Comment by Sparre | 04/04/06 at 4:25 am |

    Since the guys here at Tactical Realism is in to ground tactics, did I focus on that. I honestly don’t think they are into flying that much.

    If they where interested in the airwarfare would they proberbly not be playing Red Orchestra and Call of Duty et al but IL-2 or WWII Online instead since only these two games has historical realistic flightmodels tested in virtaul wind-tunnels.

    However, the way to earn ranks works the same for all three branches regarding RTB (100%), Rescue (90%), MIA (75%) and KIA (50%). I got one thing wrong though. We get a Rescue if we despawn further away then 1000 meter. I’m unsure about the MIA, but I think we gets a MIA when we despawn more then 2000 meter away from a military facility our side controls.

    Now days can you spawn “the next level equipment” after each new RDP cycle is completed. So a private can spawn a Spitfire Ia when the Spitfire Vb enters the front, and so on. But you still need to have the requested rank to spawn the latest equipment that comes from the factories at the rear.

    The rank structure can be studied at this link: http://53sf.aviate.org/~sres/new_ranks.htm

    The rank e5 is what is needed to spawn every available infantry class. Snipers and Paratroopers is e5 for instance. And you need to reach e6 to get binocles. All infantry class’ have binocles if you have the rank for it.

  28. Comment by houtie | 04/04/06 at 11:10 am |

    Thanks for the link and info Sparre. And I don’t doubt the effort gone into modelling the planes (that’s not an issue for me). And what you say about the map is also true - both in the horizontal AND in the vertical sense of the word.

    But what I’m really looking for is any explanation anywhere about the scoring system in order to ascertain:

    1. how promotions to rank take place (how many points to attain the rank in corporal or whatever)

    and

    2. what rank one has to be in order to be able to fly, for example, the Spit IX and/or the FW190.

    I know the focus is on the ground war but the air/sea war is also part of the game.

  29. Comment by memoi | 04/22/06 at 2:02 pm |

    This was posted in the BE forums by one of the game’s developers, Doc. It shows the level of detail they go to in the damage model for one piece of equipment, in this instance a Panhard, and one type of shell.

    We had a beta tester do a laymans analysis of how the ballistics and damage modeling works in our game engine. Thought you might get a kick out of seeing this.

    *** Damage Log File Analysis ***

    Caculations of a single 75mm APHE round impact to a Panhard scout car.

    I will be showing you a shortened version, because there were 46 pieces of spall generated, over 30 pieces of shrapnel, and nearly 90 concussion damage events. Lets take the first line.

    STUG 75mm APHE round hitting panhard right hull door at 714 m/s, Energy = 1730949 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 7 deg

    Stug 75mm aphe is of course the ammunition that was fired.
    (Stu.K.L24 Armour Piercing High Explosive in this case)

    It hit the right side of the panhard in the crew door. The round was traveling 714 meters per second. It had an energy of 1,730,949 joules. For reference, it takes about 10000 joules to completely blow a track and about 3000 joules to damage the 25mm gun on the panhard.

    We have nearly 2 million joules of energy on initial impact.

    Thickness, is the thickness of the surface being hit, the panhard door is only 14mm thick. The round hit at 7 degrees to the armor, almost a perfectly straight angle.

    STUG 75mm APHE round hitting panhard right hull door at 714 m/s, Energy 1730949 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 7 deg, STUG 75mm APHE fuse started, timer = 0.0010 seconds.

    75mm APHE hits with 120746.653868 joules to right hull door.

    STUG 75mm APHE spalling 46 pieces of right hull door.

    ******** the round has not yet passed through the armor ********

    This is just the spall, it shows you what speed and angle its hits objects at and with how much energy. 46 pieces were created. We wont list all 46 pieces, but enough of them for you to see the crew dying.

    Spall chunk(0) striking left side of hull of panhard at 803 m/s, Energy 641 joules, thickness 15.00 mm at 57 deg.

    Spall chunk hits with 641.438818 joules to left side of hull.

    Spall chunk(0) stopped in left side of hull, penetrated 0.00 mm, lost 803 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Notice the speed of 803 meters per second and over 600 joules? This stuff is almost like rifle bullets going off inside.

    Spall chunk(1) striking commander’s legs at 665 m/s, Energy 106 joules, thickness 1.00 mm at 0 deg

    Damage was 105.870682 joules to commander’s legs.

    Spall chunk(1) stopped in commander’s legs 0.00 mm, lost 665 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(2) hits commander’s legs at 1001 m/s, Energy 1009 joules, thickness 1.00 mm at 0 deg

    Damage was 1008.526877 joules to commander’s legs.

    Spall chunk(2) stopped in commander’s legs 0.01 mm, lost 1001 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(3) Hits the 25mm ammo storage at 1244 m/s, Energy 1287 joules, thickness 3.00 mm at 0 deg

    Damage was 1287.401488 joules to 25mm ammo storage.

    Spall chunk(3) stopped in 25mm ammo storage(2) 0.01 mm, lost 1244 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(4) hits back of hull at 282 m/s, Energy 38 joules, thickness 15.00 mm at 34 deg

    Damage was 37.656510 joules to back of hull.

    Spall chunk(4) stopped in back of hull 0.00 mm, lost 282 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(5) Hits bottom of turret at 310 m/s, Energy 81 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 65 deg

    Damage was 80.642116 joules to bottom of turret.

    Spall chunk(5) stopped in bottom of turret(2) 0.00 mm, lost 310 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(6) spalls from outside of armor.

    Spall chunk(6) strikes the ground at 428 m/s

    This is very interesting, the armor actualy spalled on the outside also. This piece hit the ground.

    Spall chunk(7) Hits commander’s legs at 1412 m/s, Energy 1833 joules, thickness 1.00 mm at 0 deg, t = 3054.615326 s

    Damage of 1833.295896 joules to commander’s legs. The commander has long since passed death.

    Spall chunk(7) stopped in commander’s legs 0.01 mm, lost 1412 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(8) Hits commander’s torso at 1437 m/s, Energy 1647 joules, thickness 1.20 mm at 0 deg

    Damage of 1646.681433 joules to commander’s torso. Commander is now unidentifiable organic soup.

    Spall chunk(8) stopped in commander’s torso(10) 0.01 mm, lost 1437 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(9) Lands in gunner’s torso at 1546 m/s, Energy 93 joules, thickness 1.20 mm at 0 deg

    Damage of 93.100734 joules to gunner’s torso.

    Spall chunk(9) stopped in gunner’s torso 0.00 mm, lost 1546 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(10) hits bottom of turret at 477 m/s, Energy 6 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 65 deg

    Damage of 6.310749 joules to bottom of turret. This is equivelant of a fly landing on it.

    Spall chunk(10) stopped in bottom of turret 0.00 mm, lost 477 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(11) Hits left side of hull at 1030 m/s, Energy 1159 joules, thickness 15.00 mm at 32 deg

    Damage applied 1158.589382 joules to left side of hull.

    Spall chunk(11) stopped in left side of hull 0.01 mm, lost 1030 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(12) hits bottom of turret at 710 m/s, Energy 32 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 66 deg

    Damage was only 31.843677 joules to bottom of turret.

    Spall chunk(12) stopped in bottom of turret 0.00 mm, lost 710 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(13) hit bottom of turret at 471 m/s, Energy 217 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 70 deg

    Damage was minor, 216.815958 joules to bottom of turret.

    Spall chunk(13) stopped in bottom of turret 0.00 mm, lost 471 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    We skip down to chunk 36 because there are tons of repeated crew hits and spall hitting the armor.

    Spall chunk(36) hits transaxle at 445 m/s, Energy 102 joules, thickness 100.00 mm at 0 deg

    Minscule damage of 101.949308 joules to transaxle.

    Spall chunk(36) stopped in transaxle 100.00 mm, lost 445 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Spall chunk(38) hits right front fender at 253 m/s, Energy 19484 joules, thickness 7.00 mm at 61 deg

    Damage of 19484.321335 joules to right front fender.

    Spall chunk(38) stopped in right front fender 0.07 mm, lost 253 m/s, speed now 0 m/s
    If this was a living thing it would now be dead.
    Since spall chunk 38 is low speed but high joules, this would suggest different mass, that is a very intricate detail.

    *** Ok now we actualy penetrate the vehicle with the round itself ***

    After 46 pieces of spall have ripped the place up.

    STUG 75mm APHE penetrated right hull door 14.00 mm, lost 25 m/s, speed now 688 m/s

    14mm is the door thickness, it didnt slow the round down much, it only lost 25 meters per second of speed.

    STUG 75mm APHE slamms into commander’s legs at 688 m/s, Energy 1610203 joules, thickness 1.00 mm at 0 deg

    A traumatic 4398.429960 joules to commander’s legs.

    STUG 75mm APHE penetrated commander’s legs 1.00 mm, lost 1 m/s, speed now 687 m/s

    If this was a solid AP round you would see the round keep going through stuff until it was stopped, but since its APHE something cooler is going to happen.

    ************************************************** *******
    Now the APHE explodes!!
    ************************************************** *******

    STUG 75mm APHE detonating, STUG 75mm APHE explodes into 30 pieces of shrapnel

    We will skip to some more interesting shrapnel, but they go on ripping crew to pieces just like the spall.

    Shrapnel shard(2) Severs gunners legs at 779 m/s, Energy 39361 joules, thickness 1.00 mm at 0 deg, t = 3054.616761 s

    Damage was 39360.979559 joules to gunners legs. What legs? They aren’t legs anymore. This poor guy needs 5 body bags and a broom. A hose might come in handy.

    Shrapnel shard(2) stopped in gunners legs 0.26 mm, lost 779 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Shrapnel shard perferates gunner’s torso at 849 m/s, Energy 29655 joules, thickness 1.20 mm at 0 deg

    Damage was 29655.306813 joules to gunner’s torso.

    Shrapnel shard(3) stopped in gunner’s torso 0.19 mm, lost 849 m/s, speed now 0 m/s

    Lots of repeated crew hits, driver took a near fatal one to his head. Now look at this.

    ************************************************** ********
    CONCUSSIVE DAMAGE!!
    ************************************************** ********
    There were about 90 something concussion events here, below are some of the highlights.

    STUG 75mm APHE concussive explosion

    Damage of 10.913030 joules to radiator.

    Effect of concussion to component antifreeze at 1.5 m from detonation = damage of 14.395833 joules to antifreeze.

    Effect of concussion to component driver’s head … energy 29.883825 joules to damage driver’s head, threshold 40.000000 joules. The drivers head just survives, but too bad shrapnel already wounded him. He bleeds out, poor guy.

    Effect of concussion to component commander’s torso.

    Damage of 127.093132 joules to commander’s torso. Too bad he is already dead.

    Effect of concussion to component commanders arms.

    Damage of 88.672264 joules to commanders arms.

    And of course his arms are now on the floor.

    The end result here was commander and gunner laying about in pieces on the panhard floor, the driver bled out from a nasty head wound. We see that APHE does in fact fuse and then detonate inside the armored car. There was alot of spall and shrapnel inside, and every single piece was calculated.

    We also learned that there is concussive damage, and it can injure and kill crew if they take a big enough hit from it. All the above data is real game data, retyped to make it humanly readable.

    Hopefuly you find this both interesting and helpful when you’re out there wondering what the heck is going on. The answer is there’s an awful lot going on !

    Disclaimer: A Panhard and crew were actualy killed during this testing but no sheep were harmed.
    __________________
    Geof Rey Evans
    Producer/CRS
    “this is rocket science, it just looks like a video game”
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